Monday July 28, 1997
Day 1, Morning Session

1. Mr. Ovan Lyons, Onondaga Nation, On behalf of North America: Notes that he is speaking as a representative for North America and that he has held the duty since 1977 when indigenous peoples first approached the United Nations and gathered together with a vision for indigenous peoples to take their place respectfully among the nations of the world. States that in 1977, there were approximately 160 delegations from the Western hemisphere and at that time, they declared that they would be known as the indigenous peoples of the Western hemisphere. Says that since then, indigenous nations around the world have joined them and their family has grown. Remembers the leaders of that time, most of whom are no longer here. Remembers that at that time, he was a younger man and looked at the leadership of his grandfather and his uncles. Notes that now they have gone home and have left them to do the work.

Things have changed in the last 20 years. Acknowledges that speaking here is progress of sorts. States that they came carry the message of their people, they came seeking justice when they heard of this great organization. States that they thought this was the best place to come to seek the welfare of their peoples and nations. Notes that at the time, reports of the conditions of their peoples were not good in the areas of health, habitat, and political problems. States that at the time, they said that if they could only state one message, it would be to speak on behalf of those who could not speak for themselves and the natural world. States that their message was about the life of this world as without its support and existence, we cannot exist. Notes that they still speak on behalf of the life forces, of the forests, of fish, animals, insects.

Twenty years later, the condition of this world is not good and it is even worse than it was. States that the human being has not progressed in terms of understanding what is needed for survival. States that many years ago, his people spoke to those who came to his country about justice for people and equality. States that they have to do what is best to serve the generations that are looking up from the earth, each waiting their time. Repeats that things have changed in the past 20 years and there has been progress of sorts, like the development of the Working Group with the honourable Erica Daes as its president. States that the Working Group considers the welfare of the indigenous peoples and continues to do so today. Says that representatives have travelled here year after year to produce a statement on behalf of the indigenous peoples because they were not included in the Declaration for Human Rights. States that the representatives worked for years and concluded with the Draft Declaration of Indigenous Peoples of the world.

States that much effort has been put into the Draft Declaration. Recalls that the representatives respectfully requested that it be adopted by the United Nations. Remembers the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio when people gathered and spoke specifically about the environment and the future. Thanks non-governmental organizations which have helped indigenous peoples from the beginning and have played a very important function in the communication between nation states and the people they govern. Notes that an assessment this year about progress of the Rio summit has been disappointing as there has not been enough commitment from the nations themselves. Notes that in the world today, there is rampant economic development which is unregulated. Notes that today the fish are inedible, rabbits have sores and cannot be eaten and there are fewer birds singing. Notes that things have deteriorated and there is a great deal of work to be done.

States that good and courageous leadership is needed, as those in the future will ask what has been done for them. Notes that the problems that indigenous peoples mentioned 20 years ago are still here. Hopes that the government delegations will consider the recognition of this Draft Declaration without changing it. Notes that indigenous peoples have worked very hard and ask only for the minimum of human rights and self-determination. Says that things have to get better. Thanks all the nations in the United Nations that take the time to come and listen and support the enormous family of the indigenous peoples. Wishes everyone luck and says that things are going to get worse before they get better. States that things will improve if nation states work together with them for the welfare of the people.

2. Mr. Aku Swai, Ainu People, Japan: Expresses pleasure in seeing the worlds indigenous peoples gathered here today in solidarity with their brothers and sisters across the world. States that there has been little change in the United Nations (UN) over the last 20 years, for the improvement of the situation of indigenous people, but this has been allowed by the indigenous peoples themselves who have not asked for the recognition of their special rights, in particular the right to exist as distinct peoples. Affirms that the UN must accept that indigenous peoples exist in every part of the world. States that the indigenous peoples of Asia will do all that is possible within the UN to ensure that the maximum efforts are made to improve the situation and guarantee the dignity of all. States that this has been repeated many times to the governments of Asia. Emphasises that the indigenous peoples of Asia are united and will remain so until their dignity is restored.

3. Mr. Leonor Zalobata, Latin America: Expresses thanks and welcomes all present to the Working Group. Reiterates much of what has occurred to the indigenous peoples of Central America during the last 20 years and the effects that the UN has made and can continue to make in the area of indigenous peoples' rights.

4. Mr. Antonio Jacanamijoy, Amazonia: Brings greetings from the people of the Amazon Basin who have always been present at the United Nations because they believe that the Amazon region contains the largest level of biodiversity and it is an important part of the history of indigenous peoples to reach equality between cultures and biodiversity. Notes that in the Amazon, conservation polices have historically led to exclusion or limited participation of indigenous peoples. Continues that the administration of policies has often ignored the ways of life of the indigenous peoples who seek to live in harmony with nature. Notes that indigenous peoples have made the greatest contribution to conservation. Emphasises that indigenous peoples have always protected nature.

Notes that the indigenous peoples of the Amazon reiterate full recognition of their historical rights, and the right to be recognized as indigenous. Demands the freedom of determination of their peoples. Expresses concern about the final fate of indigenous peoples, especially since new licenses are always been granted to conduct timber operations to the detriment of the indigenous peoples. States that indigenous peoples live in very rich areas and have increasing problems with oil explorations and timber exploitations, all examples of the rejection of biodiversity in the Amazon and the existence of the indigenous peoples who live there. Demands full rights for indigenous peoples, including being consulted about anything that happens in their land. Notes that indigenous peoples have made contributions regarding the use of resources. Demands the legitimate right to exchange information with all sources regarding sustainable biodiversity.

Supports the Draft Declaration for Indigenous Peoples and hopes it will finally be adopted. Urges governments to give strong support to the Draft Declaration. Notes that indigenous knowledge is part of a collective heritage and should not be subject to patenting at any time. Wants conservation policies to respect the ways of indigenous peoples and their lands. Wants the ILO agreement to be implemented in countries like Brazil and Equador which have not implemented them. Hopes that governments will ensure the fundamental rights of our peoples.

5. Mr. Yegor Bekrenev, Representative of indigenous peoples of Russia, Inuit and Saami. Welcomes all those gathered here today. Notes that he has come from Russia, where he is a member of the association of indigenous peoples and council of elders of the Shores. The Shores are ancient peoples of Siberia, famous for their work as black smiths. Expresses his gratitude in having the opportunity to participate in the 20th anniversary of the first international conference of indigenous peoples and the 15th Session of working group on indigenous peoples.

Notes the responsibility confided in him by the indigenous peoples of Russia for speaking here today. States that the peoples of the arctic region, the Saami and the Inuit, have an ancient and friendly partnership. Recalls they were the first to talk about the problems of indigenous peoples. Expresses his gratitude to these peoples, who acknowledge the indigenous peoples and their respective problems. Notes the work of the American Indians who came to Geneva 20 years ago to defend the rights of the indigenous peoples in the United Nations forum. Recalls it was an historic event, where indigenous peoples fought for their inalienable rights. Reminds that the struggle was hard and all those gathered here owe much to the patience and determination of those pioneers.

States that justice has triumphed and a gate was opened at the UN 15 years ago when the Working Group was created. The indigenous peoples of Russia were only aware of this movement in 1990, along with the right to land, self-determination and other inalienable rights. Notes that the indigenous peoples of Russia are taking this opportunity to learn, gain experience, achieve progress and set strategies. Hopes that these rights will be realised when the government adopts laws to protect the rights of these indigenous peoples. Expresses hope that the many measures adopted as part of the Decade will be implemented. Expresses his gratitude on behalf of the indigenous peoples of Russia, the Inuit and Saami to the pioneers who made it possible to defend the rights of indigenous peoples without whom no one would be here today.

6. Mr. Joseph Balai, On Behalf of Africa: Gives thanks to all attending the Working Group. Tribute is paid to the ancestors who have given indigenous peoples access to the UN system, through which the indigenous peoples can express support and fight for their freedom. States that indigenous groups in Africa have not had access or the right to educational services. Notes that violence has broken out between peoples who share the same dream but different languages. Underlines that the UN should see the need for peace keeping missions and the power they has to resolve conflicts. States that as the 25th anniversary of the rights of indigenous peoples is commemorated, much will be done before the end of 2004. Remarks that much has been done, and more shall be done together. Assures that the indigenous people will fight together.

7. Mr. Jeff Clarke, Australia: States he is honoured to be here after 20 years of struggle, although it is difficult to decide whether to cry or celebrate. Notes that they came with expectations and expressed their suffering. Comments that they have been through the ILO process. Says they are heartened by the symbolism and spirit which the indigenous peoples have carried on the well-worn path to justice. Sees the symbols of the spirits of indigenous peoples from the four corners of the world. Says that they continue to be denied and yet they continued to come back.

Reminds that indigenous peoples continue to be dispossessed in their own countries. Notes that there are some who sit among us as friends, but they are enemies. Notes the need to tell the world of the collective struggle that seeks to deny the fundamental rights of indigenous peoples. Encourages the non-governmental organizations present to continue to open the doors of governments. Notes that indigenous peoples will continue the march and will not be denied by the United Nations.

8. Mr. Chum Tum: Welcomes all indigenous peoples present. Wishes to offer a poster to John Pace of the High Commission, for the 20 years of the conference on indigenous peoples, on behalf of Artana, the College of design. Notes that the poster will be given to all those present at the end of the session at 1:00.

9. Representative of the United Nations: States that this concludes the first portion of this event. Thanks the speakers and hands the floor to the UN and there responses.

10. Mr. John Pace, On behalf of the High Commissioner for Human Rights: Thanks the previous speakers and welcomes the representatives of the indigenous nations and peoples and organizations. Notes that this was a special commemorative opening to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the conference on discrimination against the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Welcomes all other participants, non-governmental organizations, government delegations, United Nations representatives, specialised agencies and others. Notes that 20 years ago, the indigenous peoples and non-governmental organizations held a conference in Geneva in the framework of the first decade against racism.

States that this started a process in the United Nations which is still strong. Notes that the Working Group is a landmark in the United Nations and a vital forum for indigenous peoples. Notes that for those in the Secretariat who remember when indigenous issues were not part of the regular programme of the United Nations, the pace of change has been remarkable. Notes that it was fitting to take a moment to pay tribute to those who decided that indigenous concerns should be an integral part of United Nations activities. Notes that today, indigenous issues are finding their rightful place on agendas in all human rights meetings and in the United Nations as a whole. Thanks indigenous delegations which came to the United Nations in Geneva, and hopes they will use the forums open to them and continue to push the doors that bar their way. Promises that the office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights will make every attempt to assist indigenous peoples.

11. Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Member of the Working Group: Welcomes all the indigenous peoples gathered here today, the numerous NGOs, and respective States. Congratulates all the indigenous peoples around the globe with the 20th anniversary of the first conference of indigenous peoples, held in 1977. Takes this very special occasion to pay tribute to the memory of all those who lost their lives for the freedom, culture, identity, rights and traditions of indigenous peoples. Pays tribute to the NGOs who participated at the conference and are here today. Affirms the symbolic and practical importance of that first conference where indigenous peoples collectively expressed their determination to defend their basic rights and fundamental freedoms.

Recalls that at that time there was no Working Group, no Decade on indigenous peoples and no special program. Remembers those who were the first to cross the threshold of the Palais des Nations as true pioneers, succeeding, through their courage and determination, to put indigenous peoples on the UN map. Recalls that they achieved a number of things including the following points;

Contributed to their survival,
Created a new epoch,
Allowed the voices of indigenous peoples to be heard, marking the beginning of a constructive dialogue between indigenous peoples, the Working Group and governments.
Indigenous peoples are now listened to and recognized. Notes that the Draft Declaration by indigenous peoples demanded a lot of work and effort. Hopes that it will be completed by the Commission on Human Rights. Stresses that the walls of silence, oppression and patronisation have finally been broken down. States that the indigenous peoples will continue the peaceful struggle until reconciliation with governments is achieved and until their fundamental rights are respected. Encourages all those present to work together for freedom, peace, respectful dignity and the foundation of a better world for all.
12. Mr. John Pace: Presents 6 beads representing the 6 nations Clarifies that white stands for peace, purity, and a good mind. Recalls that in the past, a hereditary chief wanted to address the international community representing peace for indigenous peoples. Notes that Canada blocked him from going before the assembly. States that for the next 3 or 4 years he lobbied and found support from Estonia, Japan, Switzerland and other countries.

13. Ms. Carol Jacob's: Hopes that the significance is not lost on anyone. Accepts beads on behalf of the High Commissioner of Human Rights. States that when the new HCHR is in office she will realise how much she needs these beads.

14. Mr. Kenneth Deer, Kahnawake Mohawk Nation: Notes that it has been a wonderful morning and opening and thanks everyone for this special moment. Announces that a poster will be given to all those attending the meeting as they leave. Asks the indigenous peoples to go to the garden later for a group photograph. Notes that the elders request that the sacred buffalo head be removed from the floor and carried outside in a procession with drums.

15. Mr. Vladimir Petrovsky, Director General of the United Nations in Geneva: Declares open the 15th Session of the Working Group. Welcomes all participants and indigenous persons who have travelled a long way to attend the Conference. Expresses gratitude to see so many. Notes that the Working Group convened in accordance to resolution 1982/34 of ECOSOC, to elaborate its mandate, consider the elaboration of standards for indigenous peoples and to review the agenda. States that the agenda covers the following issues as well as other issues considered important by the indigenous populations:

Consideration of ongoing study of treaties and agreements,
Proposed permanent forum for indigenous peoples,
International decade of the worlds indigenous peoples. Comments that the agenda is vast and there are a number of participants.
Reminds that the following five days will need to be used efficiently. States that 12 months have now gone by since the last Working Group. Takes opportunity to inform of developments within the UN Human Rights Programs of interest to indigenous peoples. States that the 2nd Inter-Sessional commission of HR on the Draft Declaration, convened in October 1996. Comments that the Session was well attended, over 100 indigenous organizations are now registered according to resolution 1995/92 of the Commission. Notes that it examined the articles of the Draft Declaration, and that there was an exchange of views which allowed greater understanding. Notes that no articles were adopted. Recalls the 3rd Session, held 27 Oct-3 Nov 1997 at the Palais des Nations. Hopes that the governments and indigenous organizations will meet during these five days to discuss what progress may be made during that Session. Notes that in March-April, the Commission for Human Rights discussed indigenous issues. Mentions two decisions were made:
Authorised the convening of a Working Group to discuss the establishment of a permanent forum,
Ms. Erica Daes was nominated as Special Rapporteur on Land rights. Notes she prepared a working paper which is available at this conference.
Comments that according to the High Commissioner, a second workshop was held in Chile in which more than 100 people took part. Expresses his gratitude to the government of Chile for organizing the workshop. States that the results were positive, a certain consensus is emerging, there is greater space for indigenous peoples to take part fully in the UN. States that a draft report of the workshop is available. Adds that the High Commissioner for Human Rights recommended to the Secretary General a change in the indigenous fund in accordance with the General Assembly Resolution. Notes that the following new names were presented to offer advice and it was agreed to maintain a rotor of membership: Petterson, Intimama, Taolo, Cru, Takari, Dodson.
Notes the initiative undertaken under the program of the Decade on the Worlds Indigenous Peoples to launch an international indigenous fellowship fund. States that in 1997, four indigenous persons are invited to spend six months at the Office of the High Commissioner to obtain practical experience. Notes the program will be maintained through the Decade and possibly numbers will be extended. Wishes a very good and fruitful session to those present. Invites the Working Group to elect the chair person.

16. Mr. Miguel Alfonso Martinez, Member of the Working Group: Thanks chair for opening the meetings and the ideas which will prove very useful with regard to the upcoming work and recommendations. Nominates Erica Daes as chairman of the Working Group. States that her experience is quite extensive. Recalls that as long as he has been a member of the Working Group she has been involved. Emphasises that she is the best candidate for the position.

17. Mr. El-Hadji Guisse, Member of the Working Group: Thanks his colleague for his proposal and joins his voice with his. Notes that having Ms. Daes as Chairperson/Rapporteur is a desire since all the documents that they have been working on for a long time bear her stamp. States that if they have made progress, it is due to Ms. Daes and her work. Supports the nomination and wishes Ms. Daes the best of luck which will lead to the good of all indigenous peoples.

18. Secretariat: Declares Ms. Erica-Irene Daes elected as chairperson by the two speakers.

19. Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Welcomes distinguished guests and colleagues of the Working Group. Thanks colleagues and friends for electing her Chairperson/Rapporteur of the Working Group, and in particular Mr. Martinez and Mr. Hatano. Expresses how seriously she takes this position and considers it an honour. States she has been presiding over the Working Group since 1984. Welcomes all participants to the 15th session of the Working Group on Indigenous Populations, especially those who travelled at great expense and sacrifice. Continues to greet the 22 indigenous representatives who are being assisted by the UN Voluntary Fund for Indigenous Populations as well as the four Indigenous Fellows, funded by the Voluntary Fund for the International Decade, who will be receiving training from the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights during the next six months. Expresses the importance of the complex work over the next 5 days.

Pays tribute to the NGOs and Indigenous Peoples that initiated the International NGO Conference on Indigenous Peoples in the Americas which took place in September 1977. Acknowledges that the celebration this morning was in honour of that historic Conference. Recalls that it had been the first occasion that indigenous peoples collectively approached the UN and expressed their determination to report to the UN their suffering, their problems, including discriminatory treatment, and the disrespect of their problems, including discriminatory treatment, and the disrespect of their basic rights and fundamental freedoms. Remembers that there had been a positive reaction to these human appeals by indigenous peoples and a decision made to include the examination of indigenous issues in the human rights programs and work of the world organization.

Reflects on the basic achievements of the last 20 years. States there has been a significant amount of progress in the last twenty years. Recalls in 1977 indigenous peoples were quite isolated, without a Working Group, International Year or Decade for the world's Indigenous People, special programs in the UN, or conferences, meetings and seminars on these issues organized by the UN system. Reminds that the only standard that existed was the ILO's Convention 107 of 1957, which provided some protection regarding land rights but whose underlying principle was based on the assimilation of indigenous people into the wider society of the countries in which they live. Pays tribute to the indigenous people who crossed the threshold of the Palais des Nations in September 1977. States simply that what has been achieved in the last two decades is that the voices of indigenous peoples are now heard, directly and indirectly, with respect and greater understanding at every level of the UN system.

Emphasises that progress has seen the establishment of the Working Group on Indigenous Populations which is preoccupied with the studies of treaties, cultural heritage and a working paper on land rights. Adds that other such developments are expert seminars on racism, self-government, sustainable development, environment and land claims, the proclamation of the International Year and Decade of the World's Indigenous People, adoption of the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples, the growing involvement of indigenous people in the work of the world body, at high-level conferences, the establishment of the two Voluntary Funds, inclusion of provisions related to indigenous rights in new international standards, and the recognition by the world of the knowledge and role the indigenous people can play in environmental problems. States that 3 basic objectives for the year 2004 are:

Adoption of a strong and just declaration on indigenous rights,
Establishment of a permanent forum for indigenous peoples in the UN and
Implementation of all the goals provided by the Declaration and the Program for Action of the Vienna Conference on Human Rights and the relevant resolution of the General Assembly for the International Decade of the World's Indigenous Peoples.
Proposes that the activities of the afternoon be suspended for private consultations. Notes the conference room will be available with interpretation. Notes the Working Paper on the question of definition of indigenous people is available as document E/CN.4/Sub.2/AC.4/1997/...Adds that since the working paper from the 14th session of the Working group on this same concept, she has not changed her basic view. Remarks that a definition for indigenous peoples at an international level is not possible at this time, which makes people free to determine their own indigenous identity. Comments that so far no relevant reply has been made to the first working paper. Pays tribute to Ambassador Jose Urrutia of Peru. States that in the review of developments under agenda item 5, consideration of national and international developments will be made. Notes that the Working Group decided to focus on issues of "Environment, land and sustainable development" at the session this year.
Recalls that this year at the Commission on Human Rights she was appointed as Special Rapporteur and requested to prepare a working paper on indigenous people and their relationship to land. Clarifies it will be introduced Wednesday morning. Adds that constructive criticism will be appreciated. Notes that in 1996 the health of indigenous peoples was a topic on the Working Group's agenda. States that the results were extremely encouraging, particularly in relation to the work of the WHO. Thanks the WHO for their participation. Adds that more will be said about treaties by Professor Miguel Martinez when the issue is taken up on the agenda. Adds that a review of activities planned for the International Decade of the World's Indigenous Peoples will be carried out during its first three years. Emphasises that full participation of indigenous people in the development, implementation, and evaluation of projects which affect them is very important. Notes that a report on the projects supported by the Voluntary Fund is available as a conference room document. Adds that recommendations were made at the Vienna Conference on Human Rights that a permanent forum for indigenous peoples be established in the UN. Thanks the Government of Chile for hosting a workshop. States that before the Working Group, there was a provisional agenda. Asks if any colleague or participant wishes to comment on it. Gives the floor to Mr. Martinez.

20. Mr. Miguel Alfonso Martinez, Member of the Working Group: Mentions Agenda item 6. Considers final report of the Special Rapporteur on treaty agreements for indigenous populations to be presented to the Sub-commission and the Working Group. Notes that the Special Rapporteur was unable to present the final report and meet the required deadline. Adds that the Secretariat was unable to get an extension for this report. Notes that during the last Working Group, they were unable to analyse the third report on the progress of the work to be presented to the Sub-Commission and the Working Group. Hopes to keep the text as such but adding after ÔitemÕ consideration of the third report leaving the rest of the title as it stands. Asks any final remarks to be made on the third report.

22. Representative of Chile: Offers a suggestion as an observer. Recognises any changes in the agenda are in the hands of the Working Group. Suggests that the Working Group moves up in the agenda what was now item 8, 'consideration of a permanent forum for indigenous peoples', because it was one of the most important issues and all will benefit if it is considered earlier.

23. Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Thanks her colleague for her proposal. States that she will raise the point in the afternoon meeting today. Asks whether there are any other comments on the agenda.

24. -: States that in regard to item 5, 'Land, Environment and Development', sustainable development does not have the same meaning in French as it does in English.

25. Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: States that there is a technical mistake on the agenda concerning item 5 A and its headline should now read 'Environment, Land and Sustainable Development'. Notes that with this correction, the Working Group has adopted its agenda and wishes everyone a pleasant lunch. Adjourns the session until 10 a.m. Tuesday. Offers the members of the indigenous peoples to use the conference room in the afternoon for their informal deliberations.

26. Secretariat: Notes there will be a program regarding health made by the government of Canada in room 24 at 3:00 pm. Adds that those supported by the Voluntary Fund will be briefed at 3pm in room 25, where relevant checks will be delivered. Notes that at 2:30 pm, in room 25, there will be a short briefing about the fellowship program.

27 Erica Daes, Chairperson: Thanks the Secretariat and adjourns the meeting.

Tuesday July 29, 1997
Day 2, Morning Session

Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Wishes everyone a good morning and declares the meeting open. Reports on the results of the private meeting of the members of the Working Group yesterday afternoon and notes it was decided not to change the order of the items of the agenda. Notes, however, that in organizing the work of the session, attention will be paid to assure that a full discussion is held under each item, including in particular, the item on a permanent forum for indigenous peoples. States that in view of the large number of participants, the Working Group decided that the list of speakers will be open on all items of the agenda and it will be closed at 6:30 p.m. this afternoon. Says that speakers should provide their names, the title of their organization and the country from which they come. Says that this will allow the Secretariat to divide the time more favourably and effectively. Notes that she will give the floor to the Secretariat for some information on documentation for the session.

Mr. Julian Burger, Secretary, Working Group on Indigenous Populations: Thanks the Chairperson. States that he has information regarding documents on the Working Group. Mentions that the agenda is available at the door . States that the annotated version of document E7N4/2/AC4/1997/2 is available in the 6 official languages. Adds that the supplementary working paper of the Special Rapporteur is also available at door 40. States that document 3 is not available. Clarifies that it was to be a document by the Secretariat on land and environment but was found to be unnecessary. Adds that the document on health and indigenous peoples is also not available at this time. Continues that document ECN4/AC 4/1997 /5 is information on the Voluntary Fund and is available in all the official languages. States that the draft on the Permanent Forum has been submitted. Mentions that the working paper by the Special Rapporteur on land rights is unavailable at this time.

Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Thanks the Secretariat for the information concerning the documents. Appeals to all participants to be as brief as possible although there is no limitation of time for the speeches. Reminds everyone that they must respect the right of others to speak. Notes that those that have attended meetings in the past years know that she likes to preserve the order in the room. Reminds that no one should talk privately in the conference room but do so outside if need be. Hopes that the time will be used efficiently. Introduces agenda item no. 4 relating to the standard concerning the rights of indigenous peoples. Refers to the working paper she wrote on the concept of indigenous peoples. Notes that she has not changed her view since last year. Refers to the comprehensive paper she prepared at the 14th session, reference ECN4/ Sub2/AC/4/1996. Reaffirms that no single definition can capture the vast diversity of indigenous peoples. States that it is therefore not desirable to arrive at universal definition at the present time. Recalls the meeting of the Working Group during which the members refused to define the concept. Recalls that this was agreed to by the government representatives. Notes, however, that certain representatives still have comments to make on the issue, therefore, the matter will be discussed further. Notes that she was requested to write a supplementary paper for this Working Group. States that all governments will have the occasion to express their opinion. Mentions that she had asked for information from the governments and NGOs on this and has received nothing as yet. Gives floor to first speaker.

Mr. Rick Robinson, representative of the Association of People of the Norfolk Islands: Notes that the Norfolk Islanders have a distinct language, history, culture and tradition and were the first people to live in North Island as a permanent homeland. States that they have endured there, and for the best part of 150 years, have gathered plants and fibers and food for their traditional purposes. States that they also have a special relationship with their land, and says that no one anywhere can deny these facts. Says that they were living there long before the Commonwealth of Australia came into existence. Believes firmly in what Australia says that it does not consider a definition of indigenous necessary, and it supports self-identification. States that indigenous peoples cannot and must not be defined. Notes that while many states support this, they have refused to recognise some of their citizens who have declared themselves indigenous. Says that indigenous peoples of the world will endure and go on.

Ms. Helen Corbett, representative of the National Committee to Defend Black Rights: Notes that this is a statement on behalf of the many aboriginal indigenous persons of Australia represented by the Indigenous Woman Aboriginal Corporation, New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council, the National Committee to Defend Black Rights Aboriginal Corporation, FAIRA, National Aboriginal and Islander Legal Service Secretariat, and the Foundation for Aboriginal and Islander Research Action. Recalls the information compiled in the chairperson's working papers on the concept of indigenous peoples. Agrees with the conclusion of these documents that it is impossible to have a single definition of the concept of indigenous peoples. Remains firm and resolute on this question and on the fact that it is not for governments to decide who constitutes a nation and people, this is part of the fundamental right to self-determination, the basic right of deciding who you are. The Draft Declaration reflects this right. Notes that there is no official definition in the law and practice of Australia and that this should remain so. Mentions the rising conservatism and wave of racism in Australia regarding aboriginal peoples. Calls on the Australian government to maintain its current position in order to maintain equality, liberty and respect for fundamental human rights.

Mr. Krishna Kumar Rai, Kirat Koyu Rais' Uplifting Association, Nepal: Thanks and welcomes all to the meeting. Speaks about the history of Nepal. Informs that there are many different indigenous people groups in Nepal.

Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Interrupts Mr. Kumar and asks him to speak only on item 4 and not the history of Nepal.

Mr. Krishna Kumar Rai, Kirat Koyu Rais' Uplifting Association, Nepal: States that KKRUA supports the Martinez Cobo definition of indigenous peoples and also the ILO Convention No. 169. Expresses the commitment of KKRUA to endorse the UN Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. States that the new constitution of Nepal guarantees education to the nationalities in their mother languages up to the primary level. Informs that no effort has been made to implement this provision. Invites a Special Rapporteur to visit Nepal in order to consider the relevant issues of the nationalities concerned in his report.

Mr. Tomas Alarcon, Comision Juridica para el Autodesarrollo de los Pueblos Originarios Andinos CAPAJ, Peru: States that their organization has confirmed its initial stance and position and requests that experts consider it is not wise to establish a strict concept as to what indigenous peoples are. Notes that in Peru, indigenous peoples were considered rural people and were done away with. Stresses that this is very dangerous since more than 80 percent of his country were indigenous peoples. States that if a restricted concept of indigenous peoples is established at the international level, many countries will overlook the existence of indigenous peoples and will consider them social classes without identity or culture. Notes that, therefore, they considered the strict definition of a concept of indigenous peoples unnecessary and a delay to the work and effort of the Working Group to make headway for the indigenous peoples of the world.

Mr. Jean-Daniel Vigny, Representative of the Swiss Delegation: Notes the need to work on the improvement of standards of indigenous peoples and respect for their fundamental rights. States that in order to do so, it is important to mobilise all political actors, including indigenous peoples, States and NGOs. Calls on increased cooperation between these actors so as to adopt the Draft Declaration. Underlines the importance of making the necessary clarification's so as to encourage respect. Stresses that with a thorough discussion, lasting solutions can be achieved. Acknowledges that this can also be done outside the UN system. Condemns the various diversions that are occurring in the conference room, in particular the acts of protestation made by certain persons by leaving the room. Believes that it is a waste of time which is not conducive to a respectful dialogue. Notes that the territorial integrity of nation states and self-determination mentioned in the various discussions are not contradictory. Human rights are respected with regard to indigenous peoples in many parts of the world, they should not call for excessive self-determination. Thanks Ms. Daes for her input on the concept of indigenous peoples, it offers a good basis for discussion. States it is necessary to follow a pragmatic approach. States that self-identification is better than a sterile discussion on a definition. Notes that the Swiss have developed important cooperation to improve the state of indigenous peoples, protect them against poverty, protect their identity and culture. Acknowledges that they must remain in contact for constructive dialogue to continue. Notes that many initiatives have been put together to prepare for future cooperation, establishing standards. Mentions that a Swiss NGO, in collaboration with the Center for Human Rights, has brought indigenous populations to Geneva to enable them to acquire greater knowledge of their rights. Remarks that the Swiss have been very pleased by the progress made during this exchange and calls other states to follow similar types of initiatives.

Ms. Jannie Lasimbang, Asia Indigenous Peoples Pact: Thanks the Working Group on behalf of the indigenous peoples of Asia and notes that they support the position of the 14th session of the Working Group on defining indigenous peoples. States that they do not accept any attempt to define indigenous peoples. Says that several Asian countries consider that a definition of indigenous peoples is essential. Invites governments of Asia to attend open discussions under the auspices of the United Nations to come to an understanding. Hopes that this will lead to the universality of rights of indigenous peoples.

Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Calls upon Ms. Carol Kalafatic from the International Indian Treaty Council. Notes her absence. States that if a person is not in the room their name will be deleted from the speakers list. Invites Mr. Ted Moses of the Grand Council of the Crees to speak.

Mr. Ted Moses, Ambassador, Grand Council of the Crees: States that it is a historical fact that they are indigenous peoples and have their own identities. Notes that the refusal to use the word "peoples" in regards to indigenous peoples is a political strategy. States that by being denied the right to use the term "peoples", discrimination is practised and status is denied. States that racism is the foundation of apartheid and that the UN should not practice racism.

Mr. Marcial Arias, Alianza Mundial: Gives some thoughts on the definition of indigenous peoples. Notes that for many years, the indigenous peoples have been pointing out clearly their self-definition. Says that they are very much concerned that the emphasis in this Working Group is still on this definition. Hopes that the Working Group will take due count of opinions already voiced by indigenous peoples that a definition does not restrict application or approval of the Declaration of Indigenous Peoples. Says that it is necessary for government representatives belonging to the Human Rights Commission to take note of the fact that the definition in no way affects the process on the Declaration of Indigenous Peoples. Hopes that in the next session of the Working Group, no account will be taken of this definition since enough opinion has been expressed by governments and by the indigenous peoples.

Dr. Dalee Samba Dorough, Indian Law Resource Center: States he will concentrate on two specific matters. 1. Development of an American Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. 2. Concept of indigenous peoples. States that the proposed declaration has been recently completed by the permanent council of the Organization of American States. Notes that it follows from a June 1997 OAS resolution requesting the permanent council to study such a declaration. Mentions that the resolution requests the permanent council to ensure that the declaration reflects the work of the indigenous peoples and that of the UN in this area. Notes that the States are currently having to make comments on the declaration after which it will be considered before a Juridical Committee. Adds that following this, a meeting of government experts will be convened at the 28th regular session of the OAS in June 1988. Indicates that the last clause of the resolution on the definition of the government experts and the purpose of this meeting remains unclear. Expresses regret at the shortfalls in the text, however is encouraged with the current developments. Notes concern over government initiatives to try to weaken the present text of the Declaration. Says he would like to engage in dialogue with indigenous peoples to decide on the best possible means of preventing such attempts. Mentions that copies of the Declaration will be made available. States that concerning agenda item 4a, no definition is necessary in any of the human rights documents and other relevant texts. Supports Ms. Daes' ideas on the concept of indigenous peoples. Adds that, furthermore, no qualification of the term "peoples" is recognised in self-determination. Emphasises that all peoples have the right to self-determination and to refer themselves as peoples. Mentions fear of Balkanisation and threats to territorial integrity. Remarks that international reality is that peoples have more autonomy and do not threaten the stability of states. Underlines the importance of interconnectedness. Recalls UN interpretation of self-determination which implies that peoples cause problems. Suggests that this arises from the idea that the world is divided in mutually exclusive spheres. Adds that it does not cover overlapping populations and increasing interdependedness, it remains a very Western perspective in which there are only two units: the individual and the State. Notes that this conception obscures the human rights character of self-determination. Adds that any conception of self-determination that does not take this into account is limiting. States that self-determination concerns the constitution of all levels and forms of government. Underlines there should be no exception to the word "indigenous peoples". Calls States to remain open minded and engage dialogue with indigenous peoples on the concept of indigenous peoples.

Mr. Alexis Tiouka, FOAF: Thanks the chairperson. States that the legal existence of indigenous peoples is a recent concept in France. Adds that indigenous people are covered by international law if the state belongs to Europe. Notes that the advantage is that it is possible to act on several levels. Adds that it is possible to have a pluralistic atmosphere. Notes distinctive criteria can be language. Remarks that the UN system is being examined. Reminds that international law has guaranteed the rights of indigenous peoples but France is not bound to them. Remarks that France has avoided them so far. Emphasises that the respect of minorities is linked to human rights . Comments that if France does not change its stance, it will soon become isolated from the international community. Underlines that there can be greater contact between other indigenous peoples if a permanent forum is established.

Mr. Evaristo Nugkuag Ikanan, Consejo Aguaruna y Huambisa: Conveys the greetings of the Aguaruna and Huambisa peoples of the Amazon. Says that they want to make headway on the United Nations Declaration of Indigenous Peoples and any postponement feeds racism and this is shameful. Notes that the present draft of the Declaration has already met with the consensus of governments and indigenous peoples, and yet it is being considered all over again which can extend the debate for years while the ethnocide rises. States that in the case of Peru, their ancestral lands are being taken and there were decrees. Notes the Washington University project which aims at changing the indigenous bio/perspecting and can have a favourable position because it fosters the private rights of natural resources in communal lands. States that it is not sensible for the United Nations to waste more time and resources repeating for another 20 years what has already been drafted. States that indigenous peoples need a defined and firm stance to know where they stand. Notes that it is urgent and inevitable for the Working Group to reiterate its transparency. Suggests a resolution is passed which sets a cautious but definite date for approval of the Declaration of Indigenous Peoples. States that to claim that the concept of indigenous peoples is still not precise was a pretext to camouflage racism and reduce indigenous peoples to ethnic groups without collective rights. Says that this argument is unacceptable from people who have already endorsed the ILO Convention 169. Notes the need to adopt a resolution to request countries which have ratified 169 to support and not question inclusion in the Declaration the concept of indigenous peoples. Calls also for international cooperation for massive distribution of the draft Declaration to promote it with thought and action in indigenous communities.

Mr. Julio Tumari, Parlamento Aymara: Expresses gratitude to the leaders and indigenous peoples who, through their work during the past 20 years, have made it possible to hold this meeting at the UN. Refers to the relevant documents and the Draft Declaration concerning the definition of the concept of indigenous people. States that the parliament and Aymara people have organised themselves according to the ILO Convention 169. Believes that it is not necessary to adopt a concept which would render homogenous the definition of indigenous peoples. States that the Aymara people have a distinct culture and heritage. Recalls that they have been a community for thousands of years, they have communal land, distributed according to the needs of the family, and work according to their needs. Reminds that the history of each indigenous peoples differs from each other. States that it is therefore impossible to globalise the concept. Notes that such an attempt would violate the international Declaration of Human Rights. Refers to the work of Martinez Cobo. States that this is the conclusion arrived at during the last session of the Aymara Parliament. Thanks and urges governments to take due account of all aspects of indigenous populations in order to prevent all violations of territory and identity.

Mr. Vang Pobzeb, LAO Human Rights Council: Notes that the Hmong people and other indigenous peoples are poor and disadvantaged but have maintained their traditions and societies for many years. States that they want self-determination, and the right to freely pursue their social and cultural development. Notes that the Hmong people and all indigenous peoples need true self-determination and the right to development as well as political, social, economical and cultural rights and the right to peace. Urges the United Nations to adopt the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigoes Peoples.

Mr. Eero Aarnio, Finnish Ministry of Justice: States that on behalf of the Finnish government, he congratulates the Chairperson on her reelection. Adds that this allows for continuity in the treatment of problems concerning indigenous peoples. Expresses gratitude to have participated in the celebration of the 20th anniversary of the conference on indigenous peoples. States that this continuity proves the necessity of establishing a permanent forum for indigenous peoples in the future. Recalls Ms. Daes' supplementary note on the concept of indigenous peoples. Affirms in accordance with her conclusions that there should be no single legal definition at present. Notes that many representatives have rejected any attempt to define the concept. Recalls the pertinent working definition of Mr. Jose Martinez Cobo which includes self-identification and acceptance by the group. Notes that there is no official definition in international law of minorities or peoples. Reminds that on the national level it might be necessary to find a definition. Mentions that the Saami peoples have had parliamentary elections since 1973. Notes that it is important that only the persons really belonging to the Saami people, who speak the language and have close ties with them, should be allowed to participate in the elections. Recalls that in 1975, the national definition of the Saami people was extended, causing a larger group of persons to vote and stand as candidates. Notes that last spring measures were taken to restrict the definition so that it is closer to that used in the other Nordic countries. Indicates that a bill to change the definition will be presented before the end of the year.

Ms. Sharon Venne, Dene Nation: Thanks the Chairperson and commends her on the working paper on the definition of indigenous peoples. Adds that it is a good summary of the Working Group's work. Notes that the discussion on the definition is still the same as the discussion that was going on in Spain in the 1500s. Suggests that the Working Group should proceed without a definition as has been the case for the past 15 years. Notes that the acceptance of rights and moving up within the UN will lead to a declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples. Reminds that governments have said that no declaration would ever come but were mistaken. Remarks that having a definition is a way of limiting the rights of indigenous peoples. Emphasises that there is no need to restate the arguments. Adds that there are a number of UN instruments that have no definition and continue work. Comments that a definition would contradict the intentions of indigenous peoples which is to continue to decolonise themselves. Recalls that in the 80s, Duchene looked at the rights of indigenous peoples and decided that it was not necessary to define the term "indigenous peoples".

Mr. Lazaro Pary, Movimiento Indio Tupaj Amaru: Congratulates Ms. Daes on her election and thanks her for the excellent work done in the previous years and places faith in the work to be done in the next few years. Notes that in international legal law, there is no legal concept of indigenous peoples because all international standards are drawn up by the dominant class. Says that aboriginal peoples are considered rural people. Notes that within the debate of the Working Group, several Asian governments have raised the need to define indigenous peoples as a condition to continue to examine the provisions of the Declaration. States that to try to define indigenous peoples will embark on a difficult exercise because of the diversity of the different cultures. Considers a definition will be unfair and infringe on the collective nature of indigenous identities. Notes that any debate also postpones the adoption of the Declaration. Rejects categorically any intention of defining indigenous peoples. States that after many years of domination, indigenous peoples are sufficiently mature and can define themselves, and history will also define them and their struggles for liberation.

Ms. Zoya Kornivola. Representative of the Tuma of the Russian Federation: Notes that the word "peoples" should be used in the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as indigenous peoples vary from country to country. States that in the Russian Federation there are more than 100 indigenous peoples which range from 2 million to 180,000. Adds that 30 of these indigenous peoples have their own state institutions and are subjects of the republic. Notes that some have autonomous districts, their own constitution and parliament. Notes that the most vulnerable remain the small indigenous peoples. States that the democratic developments in the recent years have made it possible to elaborate laws to protect them. Recalls that in 1993 the idea of small indigenous peoples was considered for the first time. Notes that the State has undertaken work to protect their rights at the level of international law. States, however, that these measures are not efficient without a mechanism for implementation. Mentions that there is presently a proposed law to implement the rights of indigenous peoples, including such points as the status of small indigenous peoples and the use of natural resources. Hopes that this will be an important step forward in the protection of the rights of small indigenous peoples.

Mr. Aucan Huilcaman Paillama, Consejo de Todas las Tierras Mapuche: Thanks the Chair. States that there is no doubt that the Working Group has been a place where the rights of indigenous peoples have been dealt with within the UN system. States that international law is found to be insufficient in respect to indigenous peoples and will remain so unless political aspects are fixed. Notes that presently there is a lack of considerable participation by indigenous peoples. Adds that dialogue with States is necessary, not for the purposes of competition, but for cooperation. Emphasises that it is a priority to draw up new standards in international law. Reminds that the systematic violation of the rights of indigenous peoples is still a problem. States that new violations of human rights and the rights of indigenous peoples in the area of genetic engineering is a new conflict. Emphasises that such violations are beyond ethical reasoning and an infringement of human rights. Stresses that legal regulations need to be adopted. States that the concept of indigenous peoples does not need definition. Refers to the issue of States and self-definition. Adds that self-definition applies only to those who are members of a community. Emphasises that self-definition cannot be used to define a concept in a meeting such as this one. States that identities have been denied. Adds that there is no real way to define states at this time but dialogue is necessary. Suggests that it would be best to use the definition of ILO Convention No. 169 in order to define indigenous peoples for the time being.

Ms. Akahi Nui, Kingdom of the Hawai'i Nation: States that the Na Kanaka Maoli indigenous people are the original inhabitants of the island and their traditions and origins go back to the life forces of nature itself. Says that the origins of the Na Kanaka Maoli people come from the earth, streams, springs, crops, oceans, currents, winds, volcanoes and various elements of nature. Continues by saying that these people are part of nature and nature is part of them, and their language has words for the love and the care of the land. Says that this is the core of their philosophy since the people sustained their relationship with land and extended family. Notes that the indigenous peoples need access to the resources of the land for substance which has always been the basis of their existence. Says that the Na Kanaka Maoli peoples are seen as a poverty stricken people with a high imprisonment rate. Thanks the Chairperson.

Mr. Mohamed Mijarul Quayes, representative of Bangladesh: Congratulates the chairperson for her reelection. Thanks her for her supplement working paper on the concept of indigenous peoples. Refers to paragraph 8 of the working paper which records the Bangladeshi point of view, which remains the same. Requests not to be addressed as the governmental representative, but simply as a representative. Recalls the work and deliberations of the Working Group regarding the issue of definitions. Notes that the States listed in paragraph 8, many of which are the modern states of the old indigenous peoples, are not all from Asia. Refers to the ILO Convention, the definition of Martinez Cobo in elaborating the criteria and factual grounds for the identification of peoples. Mentions the many references by delegates to self-definition which is different from self-identification. Requests clarification on how self-definition addresses the substance of the agenda item. Agrees with Ms. Daes that the diversity is so wide that a restrictive definition should not be attempted. Wonders whether it could be possible to abandon the nomenclature "indigenous", replacing it with another which may be effectively defined. Adds that this would provide the necessary focus required for standard setting.

Ms. Erica-Irene Daes, Chairperson: Thanks the representative from Bangladesh and says that she is ready to discuss the issues outside the room.

Mr. Miguel Alfonso Martinez, Member of the Working Group: States that the list of speakers has been exhausted. Adds that in reference to some of the issues on item four, the opinion of the experts is that it is not necessary to define indigenous peoples at this time. States that not having a definition could be misinterpreted as procrastination. Emphasises that it is possible to have a declaration on indigenous peoples without having a prior definition on minorities. Reiterates that it is up to them to define the concept of indigenous